I will attest that a rifle upper and a barrel with the M4 feedramps works just fine. Some gun owners believe that the M4 ramps can help for some of the larger-diameter cartridges in use. The trust part is accepting claims of USGI-spec parts actually being done to not only blueprint dimensions, but also made from the correct materials treated to the same processes. Reliability is the main concern for me when I re-barrel this rifle. I didn't forsee that we'd ever see the day when replacement parts would be so hard to get. These units actually feature the NON-F-Marked (correct) front sight base. CARBON-15 Stripped Lower Receiver All Rights Reserved. Pasted as rich text. Not saying a really good gunsmith cant do it, just that theres a bit of an involved process. The M4 was the first (allegedy) carbine length gas system. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. Sorta. Watch a video about our Modern Series AR barrel: I didnt think anything about it having M4 feed ramps. If I was concerned with precision, I would seek out parts from well-known gun makers and customizers Baer comes to mind, Hart barrels, etc etc. A feed ramp is a basic feature of many breech loading cartridge firearm designs. ago KrinkyDink2 9 hr. BrianEnos.com JavaScript is disabled. Metal cases ammunition such as Wolf through an M4 clone? I will check with compass lake. Edited April 27, 2014 by Mark Gale It is milled out of 6061 T6. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. UPPER RECEIVER: AR-15 Mil-Spec Machined out of 7075-T6 Forged Aluminum, M4 Feed Ramps, Cerakoted Magpul Flat Dark Earth (FDE) Color with Forward Assist and Ejection Port Cover Installed BARREL: 22 inch, 223 Wylde Caliber, 4150 CMV, 1:7 Twist, Heavy Bull Barrel Profile, Straight Fluted, Melonite/Nitride Finish - made for us by Tactical Kinetics HAND From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. I've seen uppers with and without anodizing on M4 ramps . it seems to me to be about 50/50 with and without. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. Proper maintenance and lubrication. FWIW one of my rifles has M4 feed ramps on the barrel and no M4 feed ramps on the upper and it has functioned just fine. I'm assuming that you only need the ramps from one or the other. The M4 cut extends down beyond the edge of the barrel extension (has a scalloped appearance), and a correspondingly deeper cut in an M4-spec upper receiver effectively extends the ramps downward (they're lowered). To conclude, the M4 feed ramps bring a lot of improvements to the AR-platform firearms. They were not intended to be super long range man killers. The first reason is that they are, indeed, better. Only took a few minutes. are all barrels w/ m4 feed ramps?? A shorter gas tube means reduced gas pressure, and we all know what happens when there isn't enough pressure to cycle the bolt carrier group properly. Home Firearms Figuring Out Feed Ramps. It's going to a gunsmith to be shortened and rethreaded anyways, can they just grind/polish the feed ramps to match or is it more involved than that? The mil actually only specs M4 feed ramps for use in its M4s. pm me at BOG or PG, or get in touch with my number 09177542777 if you're interested. A forum community dedicated to drag racing drivers and enthusiasts. Go back to writing school. Thread: Adding M4 feedramps to A1/C7 upper. which is bad combo. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The last is using the best and right ammo for the job. This can lead to a rare but odd situation; barrel and receiver mismatch. Now move move the on deck cartridge forward to the 3/8 of inch position and again note the position of the tip of the bullet in relationship to the barrel extension. That puts the cartridge in a position where the extended feed ramp improves the breech-loading design. If you have a bolt that you would like to use you are welcome to ship it to us for accurate headspace. So I'm thinking I ought to have M4 ramps in the gun because based on what I've read: Rifle receiver+M4 barrel = "OK" but not ideal. Hasn't misfed yet, through initial break in up through 1k rounds, and that's mag length ammo. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Oh well, as I tell my lovely and understanding bride, guns are relatively free. it's the ammo and training that cost real money. As a result, the factory machined M4 feed ramps on the receiver are hard coat anodized which adds significant strength to the aluminum. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. Can someone recommend or point me in the right direction of a good quality upper receiver for an SPR build that does not have M4 feed ramp cuts in it? 4. 2. A closer look at uppers and barrel extensions. Single Action and Double Action Which One Is Better For You? If you aren't 110% comfortable with doing the job, and you do not have all the tools and equipment to do it properly, then have a smith do it for you. Just put it in and shoot it. Gas block area is .750 diameter. Then you can get a regular rifle barrel for the upper with no ramps. It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. Thank you for answering the question do well. I've been thinking about doing sort of an "Early Diemaco C8 carbine" clone build with a C7 style upper receiver. It was in the last few issues of SAR. It is removeable with a special wrench and a barrel clamp/vise. However, its rare now to find an upper receiver or a ready-to-go barrel that doesnt have the M4 cuts. Jams and misfires. This includes M4 feed ramps, barrel nut, front sight tower and sight post, and -28 threads for a muzzle device. AR Tech Tip - Checking M4 Ramps for overhang School of the American Rifle 84.8K subscribers Subscribe 2.9K 90K views 2 years ago AR Tech Tip - Checking M4 Ramps for overhang Show more Show more. I think you will find that the tip of the bullet clears the M4 cuts in the upper receiver by a wide margin. Looking For Bear Creek Arsenal Barrels Review? Try this little exercise: 1. The rifle receiver, doesn't have ramps on the receiver, they are only cut into the barrel. For use by barrel manufacturers. Check often for fit. If I have a rifle ramp upper and get the barrel later and coincidentally will have an m4 ramp. On AR9's, I understand the distance between the Mag Follower and the Feed Ramp is a known complication in the design. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Upload or insert images from URL. My factory JP CTR-02 has the appearance of the bottom right picture in the post above, M4 barrel extension in a rifle receiver, and there is not a mark on the aluminum under the barrel extension. A couple of times I ended up with the OK set up from the picture above. The M4 style feed ramps and barrel extension provide consistent feeding and the matte black Manganese Phosphate finish resists external corrosion and oxidation. What is an m4 feed ramp? I should have taken my own advice for once. Featuring hand lapped 1/8 twist rate button rifling and M4 feed ramps barrel extensions, the 410 stainless barrel gives the shooter the best balance of weight and accuracy. To measure just where the round makes impact on the feed ramps, I did not use any sort of micrometer to measure. First, the M4 barrel and non-M4 upper isnt likely to cause issues, but due to the relief cut on an M4-spec upper, there will be a gap that works like an edge that most definitely can snag the bullet and stub the round. Looking for a black stripped A1 upper with non m4 feed ramps (just realized the upper I have wont work with my barrel). Ideally both. Can I use a barrel with M4 feed ramps with an upper that isnt M4 matched? Ok, So, in short, I've got a barrel on my Armalite upper (with M4 feed ramps in the upper) that has standard AR-15 (non-M4) ramps. Married pretty well with my Seekins machined lower. So, an M4 feed ramp includes the barrel extension and the upper. #2. Well, over the course of 5,000 rounds at .40 a round, you spent two grand on ammo. I put together a second AR9 that is having a feeding issue, even if using similar parts as the first one. I have done the same, protect the Barrel extension with a layer of electrical tape and carefully file or Dremel the ramps into the aluminum receiver. If you don't clean it but demand 3/4MOA you might get 1,500. so it is better to have an upper reciever that's designed for non-m4 feed ramps since you can put in standard barrels right? 410 stainless is also harder and more corrosion resistant than conventional 416 stainless found in other commercially available precision barrels. I am glad to know that I need to look for changes in design and the differences in the A2 and A4 feed ramp / rails. One of the AR15 engineers under Gene Stoner pretty much said that the M4 isn't a good platform, especially once the gas port erodes a bit. M4A1s run at 950 rounds per minute in full auto and even 950+ rounds per minute as the gas port erodes open bigger and bigger with wear and allows them to run even faster and much more violent. Here you can see an upper with "rifle" feedramps. This 20" BCM barrel is machined from SS410 stainless steel. 3. M4 feed ramps. By You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. Backing up a ton: Any and all AR-15 barrel extensions have feed ramps. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. One new winner* is announced every week! The magazine lips cannot move, so with these larger diameter cartridges, the bullet tips down lower about the centerline of the bore (half of the diameter increase to be exact). Only took a few minutes. However, they do have M4 feed-ramps which is not clone correct. You have the option of barrel type, thread, fluting, finish type and to add a match bolt. Those ramps line up with the barrel, which are cut deeper than on a rifle barrel. By Yamil Sued August 6, 2021. M4 ramps help in feeding in for carbine in full auto. If you want precision, dont look to the mil-spec gun, look to the one that is popular in 3-gun competitions, at Thunder Ranch, etc. It has 2 ramps cut into the receiver to help the rounds feed into the chamber. Went back to the sellers website and found I was not the only one with problems. The only one I found is LaRue's upper, but it won't work with the hand guard I'm using (Geissele MKIII). I wont buy a barrel that isnt a wylde 223 556 but Im only now noticing. Most work performed while-you-wait, evening and saturday appointments available. With the increased use of larger-diameter cased cartridges, the M4 feed ramps are proving their values when using them in those cartridges. well.. it's kinda hard to get stuff in this part of the world. And that the M4s and M4A1s are issued M855 which has a slight difference in bullet shape vs. the older 55gr M193 BALL. Seems counter intuitive to recommend an M4 cut upper, especially if the barrel Im looking at has the rifle feed ramp (not M4 cut). The M4 receiver feed ramps are cut at a steeper angle and, as a result, extend down into the receiver wall. Given that most of us dont always have perfect access to truly genuine Mil-Spec, mil-standard parts (those actually used in issued fighting tools), were shopping based on a little part trust and a bigger part knowledge. 308 m5 using m4 feed ramps, which I belive are for the smaller round like. All things being equal and having used both weapons extensively, Id rather have the feed Ramps. Previous. It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. If this is your first visit, be sure to This is one time it's better to go a little too far than to leave an edge for the . How long your barrel "lasts" depends on what your accuracy threshold is before you decide it is too bad to keep using. Since the M4 barrel is one and a half inches shorter than the minimum legal barrel you can install in an AR15, the M4 gas tube will be, of course, smaller. The tip of the cartridge rarely comes into contact with the upper receiver. 5. It's an interesting question. If it was some flat top + 16" FSB barrel id just swap upper/barrel, but this is a little more challenging to do that with. I bought a .458 upper to go with it, with the extra internal clearance cut before anodizing. This is a big tip, by the way, for pistol-caliber ARs. Thats true overall and good to keep in mind. While I've got everything apart, I'm thinking I just want to put an M4 barrel extension on. Looking to spend $180-250 (depending on condition, forge mark and if a rear sight is included or not.) Get The Best Trigger Pull Gauges To Make Every Shot Count. Is one better than the other? Here's some info from Randall Rauch aka www.ar15barrels.com, if your barrel extension has M4 ramps you should have an upper receiver also with the ramps. The difference between standard feed ramps and M4 ramps is easy to see. Bullets tend to bump, snag, and stub on these guns. The photo shows the dents and the bolt lugs line up perfectly. BEFORE YOU GO MODIFYING IT, check your headspace.I have a Gibbz upper in my junk drawer because the upper -- for some reason -- wouldn't allow a perfectly good bolt (as checked by Criterion) to headspace correctly on a Criterion barrel, with the bolt installed in the carrier. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. M4 extension with .350 M4 style feed ramps 11 Degree Target Crown Threaded Muzzle 5/8"x24 TPI Weight: 26.5 ounces But, as with anything else, this work can go too far. May 17, 2008 in The Armorer. Add 3% to the total cost for credit card purchases. You are using an out of date browser. You absolutely do not want it the other way around however. Does NOT include pin Instead, I just loaded up each mag with two rounds, and pushed the rounds forward by hand until the tip of . Create Account; Log Out ; Log In ; Wishlist 0; Shopping Cart 0; Home; About On the other hand, I wouldn't consider them as a deal breaker, and they would not pass up a good deal with an upper only because it did not have them - the M4 feed ramps. Use this M4 Barrel extention with M4 feedramps. i have the rifle barrel. I've seen that pic, it is a good reference. Mind shooting me a link where I can pick on a C marked A1 carry handle for $150? We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. DSA has fat top, Mueller, non feed ramp uppers for $40. They aid in feeding the round into the chamber from the magazine more easily, which make uppers and barrel extension matched. Thanks for explaining the feed ramp topic in a couple of different ways. If you have a m4 ramped upper but not barrel you can cause problems as there's a lip of steel barrel extension in the way that can cause feeding problems. First of Im not a gunsmith or firearms professional. So the engineers lowered the feed rampa into the receiver. That is what I tell people when they try to convince me that they need a stainless barrel instead of chrome-moly. I'm lookin for a clear definition as to what they are, and what they do to enhance a given rifle's performance? upper recievers and barrels are hard to comeby. So there's a lot more going on with rounds bouncing up and down in the mags etc. I would just make sure to order rifle upper with rifle barrel extension or M4 upper with M4 barrel extension. The M4, and the CAR-15, before it have had similar problems like the ones you mentioned. Remember less is more, little by little. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I have looked and looked and looked. Most of barrel assemblies and upper receivers on the market now have a present of M4 feed ramps. Is it worth the extra 50 bucks?" That's an important thing since without the feed ramps, issues can arise when receivers and barrel extensions are mismatched. And it appears that the bolt is slamming into the top of the bullet. By my estimates, the tip of the bullet first hits the barrel extension about 1/3 of the way up the respective feed ramp on the barrel extension. You want them to match. "A Bad Day At The Range Is Better Than A Great Day Working". The parts are interchangeable. The ramp angles are different and changing the profile of the extension doesn't make it something it isn't. There's a 7 degree difference between standard and M4 ramps. Regular feed ramps are cuts into the barrel extension only, which allows guiding the round into the chamber during loading, making them a fundamental feature of many breech-loading firearm designs. A4 Complete Upper Receiver - 7075 Forged A4 Flat Top Upper Receiver - M4 Feed Ramps Includes: - Add to Cart. Modern Series Barrels. I'd rather just pay the gunsmith to make it work than hunt down another barrel/upper if possible. Avoid Polishing Too Lightly Or Too Roughly The Bullet ~ Handguns, Rifles and Shotguns, http://thearguys.com/ar-facts/m4-feed-ramps/. Will my A3 upper reciever work with my M4 barrel extention.According to some or your posts they will.Thanks Bill. Its a miracle! In military situations, it is advantageous for rifles to function with damaged, worn, or less than ideally serviceable magazines. i have an extra brand new M4 barrel extension ramp to replace a rifle ramp. M4 can better explain their benefit, although they help with more reliable feeding. Thats an important thing since without the feed ramps, issues can arise when receivers and barrel extensions are mismatched. Lol. Clear editor. You CAN modify a rifle/A2 barrel extension to an M4 style extension, but it isn't always the best way to go unless you just have to do it. You can post now and register later. This gave it a longer point for the magazine to allow the rounds to come out of the magazine and feed into the chamber. Should not be too hard. It has ran flawlessly (barring tuning of the gasblock when new) with several different brands of magazines and ammo. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Additionally, in this increasingly specialized world of AR-15 parts that we live in, there are proprietary feed ramp cuts used for some alternate cartridges, such as .458 SOCOM. I've seen several places say you just need a 1/8" chainsaw sharpening bit and a Dremel to fix it. Don't ever put non M4 ramped barrel on a M4 ramped upper receiver. what does it do?? I'm planning on replacing my forearm with a Larue 13.5. Then the manufacturer discontinued the barrel. Polishing the edges of the chamber mouth to remove the edges of that chamfer will. You will be able to leave a comment after signing in, AR15Armory.com It's not worth changing the barrel extension on an already finished barrel, getting the new barrel extension to line up correctly with the gas port will probably cost more in gunsmithing/machining fees than buying a new barrel. Press J to jump to the feed. An upper without feed ramps can be used with a barrel that has them as the majority of the ramp is on the barrel extension. Product Description Surplus Colt 14.5" SOCOM, carbine length gas system barrel from Colt. It's best to use rifle/rifle combo or M4/M4. Add M4 cuts to Barrel Ext $15.00 We can modify your rifle extension to match the M4 cuts in an upper receiver. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Powered by Invision Community. It's best to have M4 ramps on both the upper and barrel. The extension is the part at the end of the barrel that fits inside the upper. Paste as plain text instead, 's blog. Contents: 1 Diamond Burr (For Colt 2 Stage Ramps) 1 Cut Lube (For Diamond Burr) 1 Bullet Stone (For Reshaping . A4 Complete Upper Receiver. However, an M4 barrel extension is dished more so the feed ramps could extend downward, and then an area within the upper is shaped to match. So, lets glide down these lines below to erase your misconceptions about them. Another reason is that any commercial receiver and parts makers want to tool up to make upper receivers and barrel extensions, especially when shorter guns are becoming more popular. Sent back again. Barrel Length: 16" Barrel Material: 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Barrel Finish: Phosphate Barrel Profile: M4 Chamber: 5.56 NATO Twist Rate: 1 in 7" Extension: M4 Gas System: Carbine-Length Gas Block Type: Low Profile .750" Diameter Upper Receiver: Forged 7075 T6 Aluminum Receiver Style: M4 Flat top with feed ramps Receiver Finish: Hardcoat Anodized I am having a tough time finding an in-stock barrel (18 or 20 incher) with a rifle extension on it. I guess it depends on what your relationship to the necessary shop activities is. Was sort of worried about how it would run with an 11.5" barrel and mismatched ramps, but it sounds like it should be good to go either way. . Finding the proper upper receiver is your best option. If your mag catch is at Spec height, you should not have a problem with an M4 cut barrel in a rifle receiver. An older-version (or A2-style) feed ramp is cut only on the barrel extension itself (top). I use it for hunting dogs only. Good call. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. BUT, I DO NOT TRUST MY LIFE TO THAT WEAPON. What's the difference? I like all my guns to be reliable. You can modify the upper, but bear in mind that the un-anodized aluminum surface will be very soft and prone to wear if your particular bullet hits it frequently. I found the article very informative. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! They guide the bullet up and into the chamber. I can assure you that most mods that deviate from the original design aren't 100% reliable. No feed ramps. You also repeated yourself. Whether they materialize or not depends on the direction of the mismatch. ago Costs about $40-50 to have the feed ramps reprofiled from what I can gather. However the DD 14.5 are ideally meant to mate up with M4 style upper receiver feedramps. I got my help from this thread, and thank you again to ORD. If you ever have an issue, then look at getting a correct barrel for the upper. - The Shooter's Log, 2012 SHOT Show Special Report: Del-Ton TRX Rifle and More! I have seen it done many, MANY times and if done right, it works/functions 100% without issue. Damaged Ak front end Barrel in Trunnion with or without sight bases. Insert the barrel and sharpie the cut area, then use the right bit on a dremel. And that is the important thing! I've thought about it myself, and I'd like to see test results if any exist, displaying what reliability effect M4 ramps have on other barrel lengths. Don't forget read more information about it here! Powered by Invision Community, M4-style barrel extension with Rifle-type upper. You need to match up barrels to receivers for optimum performance. "It will last 5k rounds instead of 4k. Display as a link instead, is the m4 feedramp common in barrel extensions? Installing a Luth-AR Rifle Buffer Tube and an A2 Stock #1041. JavaScript is disabled. Brevity matters. They are also 1/7 twist, 4150 steel, chrome lined, and button rifled like the real deal! I checked what I have now. You have a rifle barrel. The best case is to have both an upper and barrel that have the feed ramps. and add them to non-m4 barrels.? Theres a bit more to it than just polishing. colt A1E1 733 uppers didn't have extended carbine feedramps ? Its fine to use an M4 Barrel with a non-N4 (rifle) upper but if you have the barrel already is much simpler to just buy a M-4 upper and just replace the upper the barrel is harder to build..I have even cut ramps on a rifle upper and it really wasent needed That is before I knew better.Then I guncoted the ramps before I found out about Aluminum Black treatment. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Its also recommended you polish the ramps once youve achieved the appropriate angle. The closest brand new barrel you are likely to find is the Windham Weaponry 20 inch 1/7 twist chrome lined barrel. My experience with ARs is all A-1s. Its not a big deal but still an important thing to remember and understand. By using the M4 feed ramps for your firearm, you could pick up an increased percentage of the rounds, and feeding reliability would be improved. Any body need a anchor for a very small boat? Full M4 feed ramps start on the upper and continue onto the barrel extension. M4 Feed ramps on barrel extensions are a solid example. Either way is good and both types work great with semi auto only guns. M4 feed ramps will extend the barrel extension and the upper receiver. Some barrels I see for sale say they include M4 feed ramps, and some uppers say they include them too. 1 is a standard and the other for use with m4 feed ramp barrels. The manufacturer said they had sold hundreds of barrels with out problems reported. Seems like it should work to me, but be a real challenge to keep clean and be damned ugly to boot. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. So, I had purchased a 458 upper. When carrying out feed ramp polishing, it is crucial to prioritize the frame's angles, which is a critical part of the feed ramp. Both. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. M16's fed pretty well before the M4 feed ramps were introduced. If it's happening regularly, check the magazines you are using for serviceability. The rifle receiver, doesn't have ramps on the receiver, they are only cut into the barrel. There's no downside to having M4 feedramps on your carbine, but they are not as necessary without full auto and when using followers that will not tilt (or in a 20 AR15). BUT if you find someone to grind your feed ramps and they do a good job, post it up and let us know. This is why you can use a barrel with an extension with M4 feedramps with a receiver that does not have feedramps, but you cannot use a receiver with M4 feedramps with a barrel with an extension with rifle feedramps. Come join the discussion about racing, builds, pro mods, hot rods, events, turbos, nitrous, superchargers, and more!
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