I think the real point has been missed. Saruman had an opportunity to take a Ring of Power, but didn't. Was the ring more risk than it was worth? I mean, he was supposed to be powerful ANYWAY was he not? The Three were used against Sauron, but indirectly. I recall the Narsil having been forged by the elves, using elvish magic. This perfectly explained how the Ring could have gotten from Sauron to Isildur to Gollum to . How successful would Saruman be finding and capturing the Ringbearer in this scenario is speculative but one has to wonder would Sauron not notice this activity. I never really understood how they fit into the picture - I presume the nine gave to their bearers some ability, but ultimately corrupted them and turned them into the nazgul, which I guess was their purpose. (Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, The Silmarillion as far as the quoted material here goes). That's when the Rohirrim attacked, allowing the Hobbits to escape into Fangorn forest. Saruman would have made a tasty little morsel for Sauron. Tolkien said of Saruman, also known as Curumo: The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. They sang in the Music or the Ainur and were commanders of Morgoth's armies. Sauron originally made the One Ring to enhance his ability to influence and suppress or control the wills of other beings, specifically the Children of Ilvatar (Elves, Dwarves, and Men). He eventually became the leader of the Istari because of all of them, he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. In other words, he learned about dark magic and Ringlore and knew the enemy the best of the Istari. Then Sauron would have had the ring again and either he'd keep Saruman as a servant or just get rid of him for trying to be his equal. What about Galadrial? But it will still never truly be his & he will have to continually fight to dominate it as the One Ring wants to return to its master, who cannot be banished until the Ring is destroyed. There was a Winged Nazgul operating near the area as well on the other side of the Anduin and thus closer to Frodo. Many of the vague abilities listed above are also part and parcel to those abilities listed below. So He would do what He did after His defeat by Isildur. As such, Saruman wouldn't have been able to use the Ring against Sauron, per se. Why are non-Western countries siding with China in the UN? He would soon surmise Saruman didn't have the Ring and the two halflings were ringers. Elbereth Vala Varda said: Saruman fell to darkness regardless. In the Silmarillion we have Iluvatar's strongest creation falling from grace.In many ways Saruman's fall is the 3rd Age equivalent. What exactly happened to Sauron when the Ring was destroyed? I don't think we've been given enough information to say whether Saruman or Sauron would have won the fight. He had already copied Sauron in every other aspect. With the more powerful becoming all the more corrupted. What if Saruman had never been corrupted? In conclusion, if a Maia (Gandalf or Saruman) would get and use the ring, a bitter fight to the end would ensue between the keeper of the ring and Sauron, a fight even more bitter than the one between elves and orcs, Gondor and Mordor, much like an evil kinstrife to the death. To a lesser degree Faramir's disobedience also saved the Quest. So all of the vanilla staves will get a retexture that adds a new color depending on their enchantment. Would Saruman have been able to defeat Sauron? Ummm, thats what the One Ring does for someone who has zero magical ability. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. I'm a little vague on this point. After a comment from Gimli, Gandalf adds: "But Isengard cannot fight Mordor, unless Saruman first obtains the Ring. What would have happened if the Balrog of Moria had taken possession of The One Ring? When Sauron thought Aragorn had the Ring, he reacted with a swift military offensive. So, it seems Sauron is not invincible, even with the ring, much less against it. Saruman knew good and well what would happen when he tried holding Gandalf. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. What would have happened if Saruman had gotten the One Ring? Nazgul were formidable opponants, under the right circumstances. She's an Elf, So Has a Very Long Lifespan. First its a lucky hit, now its a super-human with a magical super-sword? He's the anti-hero in his own story who spends time with the Blue Wizards in the East, heads up the White Council, and eventually . But there are important differences between Saruman's position, if he had taken the Ring in Isengard, and Frodo's position when he claimed the Ring in Mordor. Would the One Ring even work for anyone but Sauron? At the same time, most of the Elves were leaving Middle-earth, and Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron. No doubt he would have exercised all his powers searching the area from Parth Galen where the Ringbearer departed to the Black Gate. The Ring also has his - what does it say? Which routine is best for gaining muscle? The Lord Of The Rings. It would have been the master in the end. " The Hunt for the Ring " is a chapter in Unfinished Tales, a posthumously published work of J.R.R. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. 2463, Saruman was appointed its leader.Even then, he had begun to sense the resurgence of Sauron and to envy and desire his power, and especially his One Ring.Coincidentally, in that same year the One Ring was found by the creature Gollum, drawing the Dark Lord closer to the conflict that would eventually prove Saruman's undoing. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. 3 yr. ago. Tolkien's complex writings and retcons don't reveal a crystal-clear answer about Saruman arriving first, but if you go by The Silmarillion, Saruman did. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Got caught and lost a mind-to-mind battle. The three, which Celebrimbor made, were not made to gain dominion over others. RELATED: Thranduil Was a Jerk - But Lord of the Rings' Only Dark Elf Was Actually Evil. Doom. He wanted to inform Saruman the White -- who was head of the White Council -- that he had found Sauron's One Ring hidden away in the Shire. Director Peter Jackson adapted the books into six films divided into two trilogies The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.More popularly referred to as The Lord of the Rings movies, watching them in chronological order helps viewers place certain disparate events . 2) Saurman is defeated by Sauron and the ring is taken from him, destroying Saruman's mind. But if they did, Saruman would have had the One Ring in his possession. You would have both Saruman and Sauron focused in the same area and it is very unlikely Frodo would have escaped that level of scrutiny even with Gollum leading him on secret paths. He also used his Palantir to spy on Sauron. But why do I think the Stranger is Saruman? Its probably been done already, and if so I apologize, but: If Saruman had gotten his greedy lil mitts on the one ring, would he have been able to set himself up as a new dark lord (or however they call themselves)? We dont know any details about his activities in Rhn or his other easterly travels. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Why Did Eru Give Men The Gift Of Death And Not to The Elves too? Today we jump back in time to one of our older videos at one of our What If scenarios! What happens next? . We dont know if the Stranger will make it to his destination and the show could certainly deviate from lore or invent new history ( as it has done already). Earlier in the same letter we see just exactly how useful the Ring would have been to a hypothetical Ring-bearing Saruman (or anyone else, for that matter): Sauron would not have feared the Ring! However, The Lord of the Rings TV series still left plenty of questions for future seasons. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? It was never explained how, but the Elves found a way to block Saurons sight from their Rings. On the surface, Saruman seems like one of the simplest Lord of the Rings characters to define. The Lord of the Rings. Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. First of all: Yes, you probably should watch at least The Two Towers before reading much further: that movie is all about Saruman's plans and schemes.. Having said that, there's a combination of things that have driven Saruman to act the way he does in the Lord of the Rings trilogy. What is the significance of Saruman's Ring? The heroes in The Lord of the Rings did everything to keep the One Ring away from Sauron, but what would have happened if Saruman had gotten it? For a moment it wavered, looking to the West; but out of the . Yet, it's also possible that Sauron would have triumphed and regained the Ring for himself. It has been suggested that the reason why Saruman lost access to magic after the . It wasn't really a surprise. RELATED: How Morgoth Created Glaurung and The Lord of the Rings' Dragons. The Ring still wants to be with its true master. After his friendship with Nori, that would hurt. The greatest act of disobedience in LOTR had possibly the greatest consequences which in the end saved the Quest of the Ring and saved Middle-Earth that being Eomer's act of disobedience. So it is my assumption that Saruman wanted the One Ring so he could forge his own Ring of Power. The one ring would have made him more like what he was before he left on his mission to middle-earth, only corrupted and evil. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? It's much more likely that Saruman would have used the One Ring for himself and tried to claim Middle-earth as his own. A couple of points to add to the excellent arguments thus far: This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. These are not some sort of machine gun, or beam weapon that is just leveled at the enemy, by anyone who happens to wear them. The One Ring has a number of powers and depending on what information (particularly regarding the Middle Earth RPG) you will get very vague to very specific capabilties for the One Ring. Tolkiens trilogy its even plastered on the cover of several editions of the books. When the White Council was formed around T.A. A capable bearer would have all that power, plus whatever native power he or she had to begin with. It's interesting here that since both Sauron and Saruman were in origin Maiar of Aule, they may be expected to have some knowledge of each other, and that they would have some idea of each other's strengths and weaknesses. He wanted the One Ring. Keep Your Powder Dry: Firearms for 5E Fantasy CampaignsNearly 40 firearms with customization options for 5E games, plus magic items, feats for gunslingers, and the alchemist character class! - his malice and domination, or something like that. Answer (1 of 3): In short: nobody else could use it against him. and our 2023 Minute Media - All Rights Reserved. But I've been thinking. Hidden realms of elves in the past had undone the plans of Morgoth himself, and Sauron was not likely to let such a thing go unchallenged. All the latest gaming news, game reviews and trailers. But what would have happened if things had worked out differently? This just had to be the best designed set, even better than the 2017 UCS Millennium Falcon! He fought Uruk-hai (who had captured Merry and Pippin thinking they were Frodo) and were enroute to Isengard. Even from afar he had an effect upon it, to make it work for its return to himself. Anybody else who bore it (non-stop) would eventually be drawn to him, where he would get the Ring back. You must log in or register to reply here. Saruman with the Ring would presumably have tried to do what Tolkien says Galadriel or Gandalf might have done, if they have succumbed to the temptation of accepting the Ring: "they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force." Saruman used the seeing stones(palintir) to keep up with Sauron, as did Boromirs Father (name slips me now), Sarumaon would be no more than a snivinling fool of Sauron. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. Two Blue Wizards went with Saruman into the East. If he could obtain or recreate the One Ring for himself, he would be able to rule Middle-earth just like Sauron did. Plus, if the Stranger is Saruman, it also makes Gandalfs journey and decisions all the more important and emphasizes an ongoing theme in Tolkiens works: every being has the power to choose between good and evil, or selflessness vs. selfishness. Sauron was stronger than Gandalf in the Lord of the Rings, but it has to be said that there were a few different shapes of both characters. He says: "Even reckoned as a lord and captain Saruman has grown very strong Saruman also had a mind to capture the Ring for himself [Sauron] now has Isengard to fear as well as Minas Tirith" The word "fear" seems important here. When Gandalf sent Frodo and the Hobbits to Bree in The Lord of the Rings' opening act, he had the fullest intent of meeting them there. In fact, as recent graduate of Greensboro College's honors program, Blake wrote his thesis on Star Wars and its religious connections. Sauron once again lay dormant for over a millennium in the Second Age, secretly preparing another attempt to take over Middle-earth. Saruman was a wizard and warlord, in a fortress controlled by himself, garrisoned by orcs and men, and separated from Mordor by regions which were not Sauron-friendly. But there isn't a blind following of obedience in Tolkien at least not with wise and just characters depending on the circumstances. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Indeed, Saruman needed no ring to become enslaved. There's this passage that describes what happened after the death of his physical body: To the dismay of those that stood by, about the body of Saruman a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill. We see this happening when Frodo claims the Ring at the Crack of Doom, and there's no reason to think it would be different for Saruman. Saruman probably would have become the dominant power in Middle Earth and turned it into a pretty crappy place to live. Knowing where he ends up would make the Strangers current journey all the more fascinating. Saruman had decided to abandon his mission as an Istari and join Sauron in subjugating Middle-earth. He caught up with the orcs and destroyed them in the early hours of the 29th. His three friends were smiling at him, but Gandalf was only managing an embarrassed smile towards the Lady. The villain created The One Ring, where he put most of his power. The White Wizard -- at the height of his power -- could have been a match for the Ringless Dark Lord. Was he not already the warlord of a growing realm, a commander of orcs and men? One other Seeing Stone has been accounted for: the Stone of Minas Anor. It's a good question. Please don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date with all future content! If not for Gandalf, Gondor might've fallen to Sauron. Luckily, Gandalf refused, and the rest of the trilogy didn't play out in Saruman's favor. Who is more popular Leonardo DiCaprio or Tom Cruise? By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Saruman in the Shire: how long had he been planning it? One can imagine This one, too, was controlled by Sauron. Saruman tries to master the ring, but he doesn't completely achieve such mastery. By the end of Return of the King, Saruman has lost his powers and has resorted to becoming a lowly criminal. Unfortunately, the woman did not remember the name of the stone and we will be in St. Thomas next week (YEAY) so I was wondering if anyone had any idea what this stone . And hes got a considerable stronghold and force of arms with which to hold off Saurons forces until he can learn to use it. This mod, although it doesn't add a new staff to the game, creates a unique design for all of the Skyrim staves. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Saruman remained in the East for hundreds of years, only returning to the West when Saurons power started to grow. Five wizards came to Middle-earth, so the Stranger could be any of them. In his actual presence none but very few of equal stature could have hoped to withhold it from him. )https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpgaqH-cKuqvfKr1NL-yudg-----Don't forget to check out our Official website!www.thebrokensword.co.ukIf you want to support the channel, you can help us on our Patreon page. It basically lets them look unique according to their enchantment. Come join us to discuss the works of Tolkien. the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Saruman was Maia like Sauron. 1. What TV series related to the "Matter of Middle-earth" would you prefer to see? He regained his identity and seemingly his memories, but the Stranger did not say, Hi, Nori, I have a name and its Gandalf. His friendship with the adventurous Harfoot, his mannerisms, and some of his lines ring true for Gandalf the Grey.
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